Leadership 2

No one could have predicted a few years ago when Ld2 deployed onto the table that all units of hillbillies would fail their intestinal fortitude check and run from the hobby whining like small children.

Eventhough as a club Ld2 makes two forays across the continental divide each year in an attempt to bring our good spirit and challenging gameplay to the plebs, there are still those bucolic gamers who cannot be uprooted from their more base predilections for down-home wahammer and country style jingoism.

Here's the spin on Ld2 from the mouth of the south himself:

Attention. Attention Please.

Yes I said it, and yes I coined the phrase, and yes it is completely accurate.
Do they hide in crowds and jump out with BDS horseshit? Do they only show their
ass after they win the prizes? Do they chipmunk and airbrake? RELIGIOUSLY. If I
was going and playing just those guys would I bring the heat? YBYFA. I'm not out
to attack anyone, but I'm like a ball, I face in all directions. And if anyone,
anywhere, thinks I won't say something to their face, they got the wrong fat
hillbilly. Mark Burr said it best. I don't want a fight but I'm not running from
one, either.

Im glad after the event people wanted to start running their mouths. They didnt
want none two monthes ago. Is this the way it's going to be?
Are you sure?

If anyone wants to say something or disagrees thats great. But the " we got paid
and your hours up so now I'm going to run my hooker mouth at you" is straight
out. Man up on the front end or keep your trap shut on the back end.

Your brother in Christ,

Jim

We sent that in to the National Geographic Society to translate.  They cross reference it with various forms of pidgin and were finally able to consult the Rosetta Stone and conclude that it was inflammatory in  nature.  Here we have a respone from the voice of reason, Tom Dixon:

Jim, you don't know what happened at the tournament, including how they
scored people. It's still a pejorative term to be throwing around regardless
of how poorly you think you and Emerick were treated last year. It's
freaking toy soldiers, get over it. As I've said before in private and will
say now in public, I'm tired of the metaphors and the code-speak. Just STFU
and worry about your own tournament and how you think the game should be
played there. I'm tired of you bashing on people on this forum and getting
away with it.

Tom

Thank you Tom, but let's give The Colonel and our own master of Web-ology Burritos a chance to respond in true Ld2 fashion:

Well aren't you just the one man wolf pack, like a ball, the one not traveling with Lance Armstrong anymore.

Sigh.

I didn't like when you cheated me out of getting to play the bottom of a round
back in Hillbilly 2007 and I like you even less now.

Maybe it's just me, but you always seem to be in a bad mood whenever I see you,
which is weird as I only see you playing games, something most folks enjoy
doing.

The LD2 guys on the other hand always look like they are having fun. Some pretty
crazy fun to be sure, but fun all the same.

Not sure what crowds you are referring to unless you mean their big group. Make
some friends of your own and you'll never have to walk alone I guess.

No, they show their asses even before they win. Ed got put in the backseat of a
car Friday night for that very thing.

Chipmunk, yes. Airbrake; I don't know what that means, and neither does urban
dictionary. Religiously, eh, I don't know if any of them are all that religious
really.

The rest of your rant is honestly incomprehensible to me. They seem to man up
just fine, or maybe I'm looking at the wrong scoreboard.

Their scoreboard has multiple table 1s, multiple top 10s, multiple trophies in
every possible category, a 100+ player tourney, and lots of like minded gamers
who are happy to play games and hang out with them.

What scoreboard are you looking at?

And now, to cover our tracks with honey'ed words and a faux-confusion that would charm Ronald Reagan himself, we have Ld2's own one man wolf pack litigation team:

I'm a member of Leadership 2, which I guess is the club Jim's talking about
here, and have no idea where this is coming from. <looks confused> Is this
some sort of inside joke I'm not getting?

-Todd

And then Jim decides to clarify:

-Sorry for the confusion. Let me explain.

Chipmunk, as was described to me by several guys, coincidentally ( I hope I
spelled that right)west coast guys, is when your opponent acts like one of those
addorable chipmunks from old old Disney cartoons. Chip and Dale? You know, the
very polite, oh after you, no, I insist after you, thank you, thank you very
much, oh not at all, my pleasure...during the game, and then bomb your scores
when you walk away. They also like to run the old,"what's your name again
because you got my favorite opponent vote, buddy" deal on people. Did that sound
right to everyone? Really. I'm asking. Honest.

Airbrake or Airbrake-ing. When your opponent, especially in ties or not full
victories drops your score one pip so he knows hes got the edge if it comes down
to the one game. This is seldom the case of course, but the logic used by some
is,"why take a chance?"

BDS= Broke Dick Special. An army so revved up and broken and insanely over the
top that really just needs a wind up key to get it going and just stomps the
crap out of everything. No theme really, maybe some paint depending on the
individuals taste, but really not a gentleman's army. This is my term, I made it
up, your take on it may be different slightly, feel free to modify as you see
fit. Ever see a broke dicked bull mount a cow? A lot of bellowing, kicking, and
pain. And thats just the farmers trying to get the bull down.

event- I got to read more to figure out what this one is about, I'm sorry.

And here's the objective 3rd party perspective:

So basically, you are not good at warhammer, lost to a better player than you,
and instead of admitting that you suck, decided to blame it on your opponents
list?

Every LD 2 guy I have ever played has been nothing but nice, and they have all
given me fair sports and comp scores. None of thier lists have been remotely
OTT.

And now Jim, getting it from all angles, decides to grace Burritos with more of his crying:

Well, I get that a lot. Im always pissed off, I have no friends in this
hobby at all. You got me pegged. I got to work on that. The only time I get hot
is if someone is cheating or disrespecting the game. Or when I got to play a BDS
guy with DOW or a Skaven horde or an Orc mob and then they want to play twenty
questions or the magic tape measure game. Hey! Now I remember you!

If "fun" is bringing broken armies, mowing through the field of guys who
are trying to play a real tournament and not bring BDS lists and then show your
ass at the awards event, you guys know how to party! Maybe you guys could beat
up an old lady, douse her in lighter fluid, and throw matches at her for a
while. Your behavior last year as a group was despicable. I was ashamed to have
played in the same tourney with you guys. I wasn't alone. Thats last year. I
have no idea what happened this year. I wasnt there.

Again, you are right. I have no friends at all. And I am the
anti-sportsman. You got me dead balls on.Ask around, people will tell you what a
bastard I am and that I am hated. It's The Devil,Hitler, Manson,LD2, and Jim.
The crowd is the field. The players who could smoke you with the same gear wont
bring it in fear of hitting a "civilian"- a regular guy who spent his money to
have a good game verses a good guy. You don't believe that, I'm sure. Please.
From my heart. Believe it. It's true.

And....you are proud of this? [authors own words: referring to Ed's Beale Street blunder: It's a damn funny story]

What that means is faithfully and devotedly. It's going to happen as
sure as the sun coming up tomorrow. Urban anything probably wont help much with
my dialogue. It's a cross between Appalachian Hill People, a mildly educated
background, and a smattering of media references. Sorry. That's me. ANd before
you reply, yes, yes you are smarter than me. I know this for sure.

Do you guys really believe in your hearts that you defeated the cream of
our hobby in fair and open play? Really? Do you know the number of people that
did not come just to avoid you guys?If If I wanted to drop five hundred dollars
for a weekend with guys like you, I'd go to AC. And not schmoes, mind you. I'm
talking about quality.

Can you imagine the number of high five emails I've gotten so far? The
farthest one came from Asia! You guys are loved so much!

I don't know what scoreboard your talking about. I'm talking about
acting like humans. You want another trophy? Which one do you want? I'll mail it
you. Let's see I got Necro,Lonewolf,Marauder,MWR, oooh a collector's item, the
Hombre, the Hillbilly, GW GTs...Dallas,Baltimore,Chicago,Columbus... which one
you want? Need a lanyard from a GT? How about thirty of them? Now, I've never
won a GT mind you, the best I've ever done is 11th in Baltimore. And we all know
I can't paint a lick so I don't have any of those either. But I got whatever you
like, besides that. I tell you what, I'll build you a barbecue out of RTT
plaques and a picture of me that you can set on fire... would that keep you guys
in California?

And the funny thing is, this whole deal got started because Tom Dixon
wants to run his yapper after he backed down two monthes ago about this same
deal. But, he got paid, so he thinks,"what the hell?"

As you can see, Jim has won gaming events, ergo he has the right to be a bleeding ass ulcer.  But that was an INTENSE litany of misgivings against Ld2, so we sent in our one man wolf pack litigation squad to give us the moral high ground:

Geez, Jim. What happened last year to create all this bitterness? And why are
you painting an entire club with such a broad brush? I brought High Elves to
the tourney before they were even revamped. I brought a Warrior-heavy Dwarf
army. I try to bring relatively reasonable Wood Elf armies as well.

I mean, some of the guys bring pretty hard lists, but they're not the only guys
in the club. Mike Hengl's Warriors of Chaos list (that won the whole shebang
this year) is hardly overpowered. And lots of people bring hard lists to
tournaments.

I'm sure I don't speak for the whole club, but I'd certainly be interested in
knowing exactly what it was that prejudiced you against us so heavily.

-Todd Thacker

And Tom will have none of Jim's faint of heart attempts to drag down his awesome tournament:

Cry some more Jim. I didn't back down. I told you to give it a break and let
things shake out this year; instead, you kept it up and have only sunk lower
into the self-delusional garbage you feed anyone who will listen. Last year was
the Hillbilly and this year was the BoB. We had a great tournament, especially
since no one had to listen to you and Emerick whine and cry because you thought
you were treated unfairly by everyone.

As for groups acting obnoxious, guess you never saw the SAGWA (San Antonio) guys
in full force, did you? And don't pretend for one minute that your tourney
hasn't had its share of dicks, because it was certainly loaded with them the
year I won best sports there.

Uh oh, SAGWA just got pulled into it, now it IS a dirty fight.  Jim, not knowing what to make of Todd's request for well thought out criticism, decides to latch onto Tom instead:

Sugar,
I have not talked to Emerick in two monthes so leave him out of this. I don't
have to hide behind anyone else to talk for me. Learn from that first. You are
like a sidekick's sidekick in your own crew and have already been sold out by
your own boys, so when you get your house in order, come look for me. You rolled
up in a ball two monthes ago to avoid this confrontation and now that you got
paid you want to run your mouth. Get out on your corner and stroll that ass, or
I'll call one of your many,many pimp daddys. And just for the record, so we are
clear, you aint a hair on Roy's ass. Or mine, but hey, why be petty? Did you get
that? Let me make it as clear as possible.

Dear Tom,

Unfortunately I have not talked to James Emerick about this matter in
some time. Please do not include him in your limited attempt to chastise.In this
one case, he is not to be the subject of debate.
I am sorry you are insecure in your position within the CAWS
organization as a limited figure head and completely impotent. As you may
recall, you capitulated quickly when I asked you nicely not to voice this kind
of debate in a public forum two monthes ago. Why now would you want to reverse
your position? It seems now that you have completed this year's game tournament
you wish to be combative with me of all people. Heavens!
Please refrain from commenting on material above your level or I will be
forced to contact several members of your organization to deal with you. Several
members have already contacted me to apologize for your behavior and distance
themselves from you at this time. Do not compound your many errors.
It is my hope that one day you will be the organizer you want to be so
badly. It is my sincere hope that you achieve your many goals, in some distant
future. Always challenge yourself and some day, with much guidance, mentoring,
and skill accruement, you will be as strong as your peers and most excellent and
esteemed mentor.

At Your Service,

James C. Livers Sr.

In all fairness to Jim, it was a callout worthy of an Ld2 nod of approval.  But just to mustard up his own shit sandwich, he goes ahead and gives us some more drivel:

Your Ass. That's great. And again don't bring Emerick into this beacuse I know
you couldn't take him either.

I am an honorary member of SAGWA and again, this aint about anyone else but LD2,
me and you. Or do I got it all wrong? Yes we've had some dicks. So has every
show. Yours is the one that celebrates it, instead of trying to hide it the barn
like a two-headed cousin. (if someone has a two-headed cousin, I am sorry, that
was not a directed slam.) And on their worst day, they never acted that bad
(2008). And Tom, guess who has a Hillbilly Sportsmanship trophy? Me too!

you want my feelings not to be hurt? Say" I run an open tournament, bring the
heat, and good luck to you."

Get 'im Tom!:

Whatever Jim. What you are writing is so laughable it isn't worth the bandwidth
you used to send it. Do you feel better now that you have put me in my place? I
never thought you were quite this delusional.

For my part I will post nothing more on this. I think it is quite clear who has
the bruised ego and got caught with his pants down. I know that we threw a good
show and I know we made some mistakes. In the end I only really care about the
opinions of the people who actually came to it.

Tom

But the sensibility of our one man wolf pack litigation squad is overwhelming and demands a response, so Jim complies:

-You are right. I apologize that anyone had to see this. Todd Thacker, if you
email me I'll be happy to discuss this in a civil courteous tone.

Jim

Wow! Todd received an invitation for a one-on-one with this beautiful specimen of American Gothic.  And then the distress cry of one of the species is heard and another takes up the fight!

I am nervous to chime in on this discussion, but I can only say that having been
at the last couple of HB's/BoB I have been less then impressed with a few
members of the LD2 squad, especially after the event.  I witnessed a couple of
things this year after best overall was named that actually turned my stomach. 
That said, I played a couple of LD2 guys this year who were absolutely wonderful
opponents with good lists and very enjoyable games.

On the other hand, my game against Jim last year at the HB was one of the most
memorable and fun games of Warhammer that I have ever played (and competetive),
and I have been playing for over 12 years.  Me and my team mates still get to
laughing about it.  I only wish I didn't live in Italy so I could come down to
JimCon! 

I think its a case of people having different philosophies on the game.  Some
play to win, some play to have fun, and some succeed in doing both or neither. 
I think the HB/BoB has achieved a fairly high status, and people want to win
it.  Jim, I for one missed you at the BoB this year, and I hope that you will
reconsider coming back next year.  I would love to see  Jim Livers bust out a
BDS for one tourny a year, and this seems to be the one to do it at! 

ROLL EM UP JO JO.....THAT JUST WHERE WE'RE AT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe

And then, like a ball rolling downhill, the hicks gain momentum:

I agree!

And for next year, let's ban all Totem Poles from the event. Who brought that
one LAST year? THAT put a sour taste in my mouth.

Sort of a "rub it in your face I'm better than all of you" deal...

That was the first time I ever saw anything like that, I hope it's the last.

Maybe THAT'S the reason I didn't attend this year. Right, and I was still
ashamed of bringing that BAD list too. I apologize to all opponents for that
one AGAIN!

TPV

And the guru chimes in, feeling his masses unite under the banner of bitchery:

You are the man. Feel your power. Know no fear upon this land.

JCL

And we get some words of wisdom from one of the greats himself!

Wow, now clubs that don't even exist anymore are being dragged into this. :)

Look, most big clubs have had their turn at obnoxiousness (Bowman's head on a
spike), it's always been part of the fun. It's a joke, it's a show. It's not
everyone's style, and it may ruffle feathers of folks who don't know that group,
but that passes. Jim, I seem to recall my brother offering to drive to Kentucky
to whoop your ass before we all got to know each other better.

One reason Ld2 may stand out more right now is that, frankly, the rest of our
clubs that used to make a lot of noise and show have gotten old (or died). Many
of our best painters, best players and biggest/loudest looney tunes are gone
from the game, so Ld2 stands out more than they would have 3-4 years ago.

It's just the circle of life, baby....

--

john

RiP, SAGW.

And then Ld2 sends in their valiant champion to address Jim's RnF, in hopes of subversively turning his own army against him!

"I witnessed a couple of
things this year after best overall was named that actually turned my stomach."

Joe,

Wow. As one of the older, more conservative, and quieter Ld2 members, I do not
remember anything in my actions that could have led someone to say this. I
remember running up, keeping clear of our "Banner", shaking hands with the
organizers, giving a thumbs up for the picture and returning. Afterwards there
were many handshakes of congratulations, but again nothing I would construe as
offensive. Then we left. That weird expression on my face was one of shock and
confusion. There is nothing in my long string of middle of the pack finishes
that led me to believe that I could come in Best Overall at a tournament of this
size.

As for our "Banner", is it collegiate and sophomoric, absolutely. It was a spur
of the moment reaction to another group's banner. If we had known another group
was going to bring a banner, we would have done what we did last year, run to
Beale Street and construct one. Like most of the people there, I was hoping for
a spectacular crash of our Banner Bearer, those knees were looking wobbly at the
end. Parading around with a club Banner is really all in good fun and I hooted
and hollered when I saw that Random Hit had brought one.

If memory serves, last year the organizers encourged Banners and mentioned an
award for best club spirit. That is why we contructed one last year and in no
way was it meant to demean or "rub it in the face" of othr participants. Also,
I believe the only first place finish we had last year was Best Sports. Kinda
flys in the face of the levels of Douche Baggery we get accused of.

I recognize that my finish had a good deal to do with luck. I faced 5 great
opponents whose builds were on par with mine and avoided any power builds. I
lost the objective on the final turn of round 4, allowing me to avoid Jordan on
table 1, who I am sure would have spanked me. Papa Nurgle blessed me in my
final round by not only giving my Chosen a 4+ Ward and stubborn, but dropping 4
irresistible forces with only 1 miscast. I am surprised Jesse did not have me
float my dice afterwards.

Tom and his crew put on a great tourney. Were there hiccups, yep, and I think
they will learn from them. I did find that the power level of armies was down
compared to last year but they were defiantly present.

-Michael

And then we get a more local perspective of Ld2 from the Sacto boys:

I don't think I have exactly the same perspective on the game as many of
the LD2 guys, but a) I don't remember ever seeing any of them chipmunk
(and there are a bunch of them that make the drive out to the SAWS
challenge, so I've see their scoresheets up close), and b) they always
seem to have fun, which I think is pretty important. Some of their
lists are pretty damned hard, but that's no different than any club
(IME), and many of the LD2 tournament armies I've seen have been pretty
tame (just like any club, IME).

Do they sometimes rub people the wrong way? Sure...but so do I, and so
do many of the others on this forum. I'm sure there are people out there
that hate my guts too. Whatever. It's a game. Get over it.

-Mark Havener

SAGWA to the rescue:

Remember when this was a game where people would gather to have a good time?
When we would talk trash, laugh, and have fantastic times together? Still is
for many of us.

As a proud member of the deceased "SAGW" club (now Alamo gamers), I'd just like
to add I've enjoyed every game I've had against LD2 and all the other clubs out
there. All the banners/totems/team spirit activities make the tournaments all
the more fun in my opinion.

Off to roll dice, have fun with my mates, and be obnoxious--

Dan Norris

And Joe feels compelled to return Hengl the favor:

Michael,
 

What i witnessed had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with you or your
"standard".....you were a class act and a very talented player, i watched part
of one of your games.  There were remarks and gestures made by members of your
team directed against another team that were sad and inappropriate, and had I
not seen and heard them personally, I would have trouble believing it.  But hey,
in the heat of the moment, we can all make mistakes and I am sure that even if
it came off in bad taste, it was just a momentary lapse of good judgement.
 

Forgive me if you took my post as directed at you, it was not.  You were a very
deserving recipient of best overall and I would love to square off with you
anytime. 
 

I think this can be a great learning experience for all involved, and hopefully
we can get back to talking about wargames!!!!  I think its time for a group hug
and a BBQ..............
 

Joe "give peace a chance" Nietzel

And this earns a very contrite response from the one man wolf pack litigation squad :(

Joseph,

I believe you are talking about me, unfortunately. But my "what's that, Random
Hit?" with my hand to my ear after Mike won Best Overall was offered in nothing
but good-natured fun with a smile on my face. Shoot, my best game was with a
Random Hit guy in game 5, and right afterwards they came over and invited us to
their incipient tournament. I think they understood the joking spirit in which
my action was offered.

I actually am gobsmacked that this offended someone. But since it did, I
completely apologize. The action was not intended to be a put-down or a show of
arrogance but a good-natured jest at another club that seemed to have the same
sort of attitude we do. They were the guys with the banner, remember? I don't
think any Random Hit people were offended, but if they were I am truly sorry.

And I really am sorry that my actions left a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

-Todd Thacker

Quick, someone throw some gasoline on this thing, it's going out!

Joseph,

Feel free to be specific.

I was there too, and I didn't see anything happening after the awards were
handed out that was as obscene or as shocking as you indicated. (Everything I
heard was before hand and had to do with the multi-dogstars... none of which LD2
brought, all of which LD2 beat.)

The best I heard at the ceremony was LD2 going off on the 40k players/awards as
that show was completely backwards (best overall awarded first) and they handed
out $500 to the 1st place guy in each award and then had the balls to tell #2
and #3 that they were sorry but there were no prizes for them. Stay classy 40k.

As for the 2008 banner nonsense that everyone got sand in their vagina about,
I'm with Mike here. Roy asked for all the groups to make a banner and even said
there were going to be team pride awards and such.

The only ones that showed up to honor the call were a 40k group in wolf skins
and LD2 in crap they picked up at the voodoo shop on Beale.

It shouldn't be a surprise that the guys from San Francisco were going to go
over the top with pride.

That was 2008. The fact that Livers is still crying about it is really
pathetic. As the kids online say, QQ.

That got him going again!

-Um, Livers wasn't crying about anything until someone asked me my opinion and
then when they got it, they wanted to tell me I was wrong and should feel bad
because I don't want to blow 500 bucks to play douche bags like you. Yes, you,
you rude,common piss ant. I wouldn't piss in your ass if your guts were on fire,
why would I trek across the nation to deal with you and your crew again?

Stir it up.

A succint Hengl:

Good.

But wait, the valiant champion becomes the revered martyr!!!

Jim-

I don't know who you are, nor do I give a rat's ass. I am sure you are "the
man" in what ever piss ant community you call home.

As part of a loud and obnoxious group, I accept that there will be a fair amount
of crap slung our way and generally shrug it off. You're continued leveling of
unfounded accusations against Ld2 and derogatory comments about an event that
you did not even attend just go to show how idiotic you are. Your moronic
responses when challenged prove to me that inbreeding is alive and well in this
country.

It is with great joy that I accept your promise never to attend an event we are
at. I will match that promise by committing to unsubscribe from this forum so
that you can carry on your Crusade with out bothering me. So have at it.

Michael

And then Roy steps in and calls the fight in the 24th round:

Acutally, no. You need to stop stirring it up, many of the posts here have been
entirely inappropriate with the last one stepping far enough over the line that
it is now done.

This thread is now quashed - if you are completely incapable of conducting a
reasonable conversation about warhammer without resorting to petty name calling
and general stupidity, leave or be booted.

Last warning. Take it private, or on whatever other playground you must, but
noone here wants to read this drivel anymore.

Moderator Numero Dos

Leadership 2: When it comes to weeding hicks out of good society, we're second only to incest.